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Post by jwa on Nov 29, 2013 16:22:03 GMT -5
Met with Bingo Chairman this AM to make sure she was aware of the Florida Statute Bingo 849 Gambling, Sec.89.0931. She asked why I wanted to meet with her and I replied because I believe several sections of the gambling laws were being misinterpreted. I began with the section (8) which states "Each person involved in the conduct of any bingo game or instant bingo must be a resident of the community...". The Manager IS NOT A
RESIDENT OF THIS COMMUNITY and is ineligible to be involved with the conduct of any bingo game. She advised me that she discussed this with the attorney and he said it was OK for the Manager to call bingo. However, the law disputes that statement and says that "Any organization or other person who willfully and knowingly violates any provision of this section commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s.775.082 or s.775.083. For a second or subsequent offense, the organization or other person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s 775.083 or s. 775.804. I was advised that Melonknee was the only one to call bingo that night and did she want me to close down bingo for the next several weeks because we had no one else to call bingo. She asked me several times if I wanted to be the cause of closing down bingo. It is the responsibility of the Chairman of bingo to oversee the Statute and not threaten the messenger. That was just the beginning...She advised me to write a letter to the BOD (we know what kind of responses we receive from them) outlining my complaints.(?) These are NOT complaints, they are the law. Mentioning monies, I advised her that the law specifically states that in order to conduct bingo it is conditional upon the return of the net proceeds from such games to players in the form of prizes after having deducted the actual business expenses for such games for articles designed for and essential to the operation, conduct and playing of bingo. Another part of the law states that the bingo committee can only donate monies to certified non-profit charitable organizations. The last I heard SLohA is NOT a charitable organization. Another legal issue no one is paying any attention to. We continued for another few minutes of discussion before I had blood shooting out of my eyes and I got up and left, knowing she is just another clone for the BOD. I tried to help her understand the law.
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Anonymous Environmentalist
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Post by Anonymous Environmentalist on Nov 29, 2013 16:57:40 GMT -5
Met with Bingo Chairman this AM to make sure she was aware of the Florida Statute Bingo 849 Gambling, Sec.89.0931. She asked why I wanted to meet with her and I replied because I believe several sections of the gambling laws were being misinterpreted. I began with the section (8) which states "Each person involved in the conduct of any bingo game or instant bingo must be a resident of the community...". The Manager IS NOT A
RESIDENT OF THIS COMMUNITY and is ineligible to be involved with the conduct of any bingo game. She advised me that she discussed this with the attorney and he said it was OK for the Manager to call bingo. However, the law disputes that statement and says that "Any organization or other person who willfully and knowingly violates any provision of this section commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s.775.082 or s.775.083. For a second or subsequent offense, the organization or other person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s 775.083 or s. 775.804. I was advised that M was the only one to call bingo that night and did she want me to close down bingo for the next several weeks because we had no one else to call bingo. She asked me several times if I wanted to be the cause of closing down bingo. It is the responsibility of the Chairman of bingo to oversee the Statute and not threaten the messenger. That was just the beginning...She advised me to write a letter to the BOD (we know what kind of responses we receive from them) outlining my complaints.(?) These are NOT complaints, they are the law. Mentioning monies, I advised her that the law specifically states that in order to conduct bingo it is conditional upon the return of the net proceeds from such games to players in the form of prizes after having deducted the actual business expenses for such games for articles designed for and essential to the operation, conduct and playing of bingo. Another part of the law states that the bingo committee can only donate monies to certified non-profit charitable organizations. The last I heard SLohA is NOT a charitable organization. Another legal issue no one is paying any attention to. We continued for another few minutes of discussion before I had blood shooting out of my eyes and I got up and left, knowing she is just another clone for the BOD. I tried to help her understand the law.
To jwa: I think about 99% you were told a load of crap by the chairman of bingo; in fact since the chairman of bingo is also on the board of directors in here, she probably knew some flak was coming her way w/regard to mange calling the balls @ bingo so was told by the other directors what to say; they knew if they said the ATTORNEY said it was O.K. to break the law then you'd just go away and not ask some questions like: what was this attorney's name? and What they--the bod's, are saying is that this attorney said to them that it was O.K. to break the law with regard to the bingo laws in this state? I know I'd be asking at least those 2 questions for starters. I'd also at least like to know what the "bingo chairman" (a/k/a board member) said when you told her it was also illegal for net bingo proceeds to go to things like auto doors and cameras for SLohA'S Club House. |
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Post by Anonymous Person on Nov 29, 2013 17:17:37 GMT -5
Met with Bingo Chairman this AM to make sure she was aware of the Florida Statute Bingo 849 Gambling, Sec.89.0931. She asked why I wanted to meet with her and I replied because I believe several sections of the gambling laws were being misinterpreted. I began with the section (8) which states "Each person involved in the conduct of any bingo game or instant bingo must be a resident of the community...". The Manager IS NOT A
RESIDENT OF THIS COMMUNITY and is ineligible to be involved with the conduct of any bingo game. She advised me that she discussed this with the attorney and he said it was OK for the Manager to call bingo. However, the law disputes that statement and says that "Any organization or other person who willfully and knowingly violates any provision of this section commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s.775.082 or s.775.083. For a second or subsequent offense, the organization or other person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s 775.083 or s. 775.804. I was advised that M was the only one to call bingo that night and did she want me to close down bingo for the next several weeks because we had no one else to call bingo. She asked me several times if I wanted to be the cause of closing down bingo. It is the responsibility of the Chairman of bingo to oversee the Statute and not threaten the messenger. That was just the beginning...She advised me to write a letter to the BOD (we know what kind of responses we receive from them) outlining my complaints.(?) These are NOT complaints, they are the law. Mentioning monies, I advised her that the law specifically states that in order to conduct bingo it is conditional upon the return of the net proceeds from such games to players in the form of prizes after having deducted the actual business expenses for such games for articles designed for and essential to the operation, conduct and playing of bingo. Another part of the law states that the bingo committee can only donate monies to certified non-profit charitable organizations. The last I heard SLohA is NOT a charitable organization. Another legal issue no one is paying any attention to. We continued for another few minutes of discussion before I had blood shooting out of my eyes and I got up and left, knowing she is just another clone for the BOD. I tried to help her understand the law.
A note for jwa: Don't let them intimidate you--go to the law--the A.G.'s office, and let them know that an attorney told a board member in your HOA it was alright to break existing gambling laws relating to bingo and you can bet your bottom dollar someone will give you their undivided attention. |
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GRIM Member Applicant
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Post by GRIM Member Applicant on Nov 29, 2013 17:19:37 GMT -5
If I had not read that you were talking to the BOD Chairperson of Bingo, I would have thought you were talking to IT. IT has a well-known habit of lying and counter-attacking--and it appears that IT has infected AK who is obviously lying about talking to an attorney (no attorney who could read would have said it was OK for the non-resident Manager to call bingo!) or turning the conversation into an accusation and attacking YOU for trying to discuss the issue ("Do You want to be the cause to shut down bingo?"). Those are tacktics right out of the Mange Playbook.
It appears that you are right that the Mange has indoctrinated the newest BOD member well and supplied her with unlimited quantities of koolaid.
It is too bad that in all likelihood, this being a second violation of Bingo law in SLR, Bingo might very well be suspended or shut down after the investigation. And the fault will be the Board.
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Post by Get the Proof on Nov 29, 2013 17:24:59 GMT -5
Met with Bingo Chairman this AM to make sure she was aware of the Florida Statute Bingo 849 Gambling, Sec.89.0931. She asked why I wanted to meet with her and I replied because I believe several sections of the gambling laws were being misinterpreted. I began with the section (8) which states "Each person involved in the conduct of any bingo game or instant bingo must be a resident of the community...". The Manager IS NOT A
RESIDENT OF THIS COMMUNITY and is ineligible to be involved with the conduct of any bingo game. She advised me that she discussed this with the attorney and he said it was OK for the Manager to call bingo. However, the law disputes that statement and says that "Any organization or other person who willfully and knowingly violates any provision of this section commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s.775.082 or s.775.083. For a second or subsequent offense, the organization or other person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s 775.083 or s. 775.804. I was advised that M was the only one to call bingo that night and did she want me to close down bingo for the next several weeks because we had no one else to call bingo. She asked me several times if I wanted to be the cause of closing down bingo. It is the responsibility of the Chairman of bingo to oversee the Statute and not threaten the messenger. That was just the beginning...She advised me to write a letter to the BOD (we know what kind of responses we receive from them) outlining my complaints.(?) These are NOT complaints, they are the law. Mentioning monies, I advised her that the law specifically states that in order to conduct bingo it is conditional upon the return of the net proceeds from such games to players in the form of prizes after having deducted the actual business expenses for such games for articles designed for and essential to the operation, conduct and playing of bingo. Another part of the law states that the bingo committee can only donate monies to certified non-profit charitable organizations. The last I heard SLohA is NOT a charitable organization. Another legal issue no one is paying any attention to. We continued for another few minutes of discussion before I had blood shooting out of my eyes and I got up and left, knowing she is just another clone for the BOD. I tried to help her understand the law.
Make sure you're armed w/proof they broke the law; i.e. pix of non-resident calling out bingo numbers, preferably w/date & time the latest edition of the S.E. express--which lists $$ going to SLohA--which is NOT a non-profit charity, as well as the name, address, & ph. #'s of our bingo committee chairperson and more importantly what she told you this a.m. Having this info when you go to the A.G.'s office will make you believable, and they will have to start an investigation. |
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Post by BagLady on Nov 29, 2013 17:43:23 GMT -5
What a pathetic situation we have with this bunch. Telling people that an attorney said it was OK to break the gambling laws of Florida. Betcha she can't produce a name for that whopper of a lie!
Did you ask her who was in attendance during the game last Friday? At least one of the three committee members must be in attendance for the entire game. We know that two out of three are out of town for the holidays.
And where was that notice hiding? Has anyone ever seen one of these elusive notices?
Amazingly, the main committee member publicly proclaimed in the S-bag Express that excess funds had been returned to charities and, although SLohA was not specifically identified as a charitable organization, we all know the recipient of security cameras and power door opener. Do you think that these items will be regarded by the investigators as "articles designed for and essential" for playing bingo? Did the corporate recipient declare the income and pay taxes on the "donation"?
Just a few more questions that will no doubt be asked during the investigation and all that financial stuff will speak for itself when the bank account is inspected (I sure hope the board set up a separate EIN number for the bingo account).
Ding Ding! Round 2. When are these directors going to learn to take SLR Bingo seriously?
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Post by jwa on Nov 29, 2013 20:19:34 GMT -5
Note to posters re: bingo
I did ask about a separate EIN # for bingo and was told they did have their own, but I did not ask for the number. I did ask why the SLohA had bingo monies co-mingled with SLohA on the budget and she advised it was for insurance purposes and then was deducted on the back. I do question the insurance purposes. Regarding the doors and cameras donation, I mentioned it and she said that we have several handicapped individuals coming to bingo. I explained that because of the Americans with Disability Act by the fed.gov. SLohA should have installed the doors years ago and that it was not a bingo issue. Same for the cameras; that is not a bingo issue either,but a SLohA problem. Therefore,the donations was improper. I don't know if SLohA has reported the donations to the IRS, but if not,that is another problem with the feds. I have not seen any on the premises postings,but then I Hayvn't looked for them either. Prior to commencement of any bingo session, I have not seen anyone checking the bingo balls/machine for verification that all objects are present and that there are no duplications or omissions of numbers on the objects, and reporting it to the players. 12 of the Florida Statute requires this. Regarding the attorney, that seems to be a P A T answer with the BOD and no one can get a name. All of these regulations have been brought to the attention of the Chairman of the Bingo Committee so therefore they are no longer innocent of knowing the law. But we will wait to see what happens in the next chapter. Thanks for your input. JWA
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Post by Dumbfounded on Nov 29, 2013 20:45:28 GMT -5
JWA - OF course you don't want Bingo shut down, that was just a jackass question.
It IS the Bingo Chair, Mgmt and BOD who are going to shut Bingo down by not following the SIMPLE regulations put forth in the statues for our community. It's NOT Rocket science and sounds like the BOD, IT and Bingo chair are living proof that they are dumber than a box of rocks!
When Bingo had it's change over 4 years ago - 2 Vice cops came in and talked to the new Bingo committee on what they could and could not do. Someone might have their names somewhere or ask those who were on the committee at that time who they were.
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Post by Guest on Nov 29, 2013 21:21:15 GMT -5
Knowing that Police/Deputies are constantly training and shifting into different departments of Law Enforcement my suggestion would be to call the Local Police or Sheriffs Deputy Dispatch and ask for Vice Division .
There should be no reason for the Bingo Chairperson to withhold the name of the Lawyer who verbalized his approval for the violation of the Gaming Law .
This could be considered as hindering an investigation if the name is withheld .
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Curious Cat (not Feral)
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Post by Curious Cat (not Feral) on Nov 29, 2013 21:55:00 GMT -5
Did IT call Bingo tonight?
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Post by BagLady on Nov 29, 2013 23:25:50 GMT -5
I've been getting some bits and pieces of historical info from various people about SLR's big bingo violation, which was discovered and investigated by Polk County Vice Division of the Sheriff's office Aug-Oct 2009.
This is all 4 year old recollection and some details might not be totally clear but the "bones" of the event seems intact.
B DB, as the President of SLohA, reportedly called for a Bingo report from the Bingo Chairperson. I do not know if it was a required report by Polk County or a report he was requiring of the assigned Director/Chairman. Regardless, the report could not be put together because the person "in charge" of operating SLR Bingo--a man named "D", did not keep any records. It was soon discovered that "D" was misappropriating bingo funds for purposes other than authorized uses (such as taking members to lunch).
The Sheriff was notified, presumably by the Board, and Polk County Sheriff validated the complaint. "D" passed away before charges were pressed.
SLR Bingo Committee was gathered for a meeting in the fall of 2009 and informed by the Polk County Vice Division sheriffs that the $14K dollars "on account" was quite excessive and had to be spent for an authorized purpose. The Bingo Committee subsequently purchased the Bingo ball popup machine and the Bingo called-ball illumination board in late 2009 from Bingo World to reduce its on-hand cash balance. This was a lawful use of the money.
The Bingo Committee was also "schooled" on what it could and could not do with Bingo money. It was advised specifically and emphatically by Polk County Sheriff that it could NOT donate (or any variation of that word) to SLR because it was not a charitable organization. There is one person on the Bingo Committee today that was part of the committee back in 2009.
There is a murky area in my mind about SLohA's status under the Polk County Bingo Ordinance. A Polk County office informed the Bingo Committee that SLR was exempt from its permitting and reporting requirements. So I wonder why the Board was apparently so involved in pursuing the misappropriation of funds and apparently initiated the investigation with Polk County. Maybe someone has more recollection or maybe I don't yet understand how the state and county laws relate to each other with regard to permits/reports. It's definately above my pay grade!
As part of my personal recollection, I recall clearly a summation made by B DB at a Board Workshop meeting in the fall of 2010 reminding the Board that there was still "unfinished business" insofar as making sure the Bingo funds were segregated from SLohA monies under a separate bank account with its own EIN (electronic identification number). I do not recall a report being made subsequent to that time by any of the several assigned bingo chairpersons stating that this unfinished business was done. If it was, it should have been entered into the official record.
I also recall a Board Workshop meeting in the late 2011 or early 2012 where the Board proposed to place a big sign to notify people passing by on SR 60 that Bingo games were being held in the park, presumably to draw in more players and increase revenue. A previous Bingo Committee member spoke up and advised that Board that such an act would drastically alter the legal status and reporting/permitting requirements for SLohA to conduct bingo gambling and advised them to look into that very carefully before "commercializing SLR bingo" by posting highway advertisements. I remember being astonished that the Board did not seem to have a clue about this especially since I knew it (having been told by Mik who used to be a bingo caller). It was at that point I realized that the Board was not paying attention to Bingo law.
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Owner who wants to know!
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Post by Owner who wants to know! on Nov 30, 2013 11:50:50 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the Manager called Bingo last night??
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A reliable reporter
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Post by A reliable reporter on Nov 30, 2013 13:27:12 GMT -5
I am told by reliable source that IT did NOT call Bingo last night. Maybe "somebody" got a Real Attorney opinion!
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Post by Dirty Harry on Nov 30, 2013 22:27:44 GMT -5
In the current S-bag Express on pg.3, under Bingo, It lists the Chairman, Sec., Treas., Co-Treas.,the Runners & Callback people. Then it lists: Last year's donations:
Lake Wales Care Center $1,000
Disabled Amer. Vets Aux #63 $1,000
Auto Door & Cameras $1,000
Bingo Signs $7,924
I do not play Bingo, I am a Poker player, are Bingo signs used for playing Bingo games? How many Bingo signs does one player use in a game? It must be a lot, and they must be expensive. Why would the Bingo committee Donate the Bingo Signs with a value of $7,924?
I would have sold the signs on Craig's List. Maybe selling any Bingo items is against the Law. Who Knows?
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Post by Concerned Resident on Nov 30, 2013 23:07:07 GMT -5
The call will be placed on Monday am., for sure. The bingo issues need to be addressed.
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Post by Bingo Player on Dec 1, 2013 7:32:15 GMT -5
No idea what a bingo sign is. Can someone explain what a bingo sign is? Anything that expensive sounds like hardware and the Bingo machine and Bingo light board was purchased in 2009 according to another poster.
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Another Bingo Player
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Post by Another Bingo Player on Dec 1, 2013 8:04:03 GMT -5
I'm sure Bingo Committee Club can produce records and receipts of all goings on and expenses incurred required by Bingo Laws .
Or....the Lawyer said they don't need to because he said so !
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Post by Guest on Dec 1, 2013 13:19:10 GMT -5
In the current S-bag Express on pg.3, under Bingo, It lists the Chairman, Sec., Treas., Co-Treas.,the Runners & Callback people. Then it lists: Last year's donations: Lake Wales Care Center $1,000 Disabled Amer. Vets Aux #63 $1,000 Auto Door & Cameras $1,000 Bingo Signs $7,924 I do not play Bingo, I am a Poker player, are Bingo signs used for playing Bingo games? How many Bingo signs does one player use in a game? It must be a lot, and they must be expensive. Why would the Bingo committee Donate the Bingo Signs with a value of $7,924? I would have sold the signs on Craig's List. Maybe selling any Bingo items is against the Law. Who Knows? Line item 3 "Auto Door & Cameras $1,000" is ILLEGAL !! All those named under Bingo in the Express should have known this. There is no excuse for not reading the FL gambling law statues for the community. They might have just cost us Bingo being played in SLR. And for an added note, to actually print it in the Express is the dumbest move ever!! BLACK n WHITE Printed PROOF of ILLEGAL actions.
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Anonymous Environmentalist
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Post by Anonymous Environmentalist on Dec 2, 2013 9:38:03 GMT -5
In the current S-bag Express on pg.3, under Bingo, It lists the Chairman, Sec., Treas., Co-Treas.,the Runners & Callback people. Then it lists: Last year's donations: Lake Wales Care Center $1,000 Disabled Amer. Vets Aux #63 $1,000 Auto Door & Cameras $1,000 Bingo Signs $7,924 I do not play Bingo, I am a Poker player, are Bingo signs used for playing Bingo games? How many Bingo signs does one player use in a game? It must be a lot, and they must be expensive. Why would the Bingo committee Donate the Bingo Signs with a value of $7,924? I would have sold the signs on Craig's List. Maybe selling any Bingo items is against the Law. Who Knows? Can someone please find out what it is that cost almost $8K going to pay for something called "Bingo Signs"? What in the hell is this? Is it signs announcing the where, when, etc. of the Bingo games in here? If so, where are, i'd like to see an $8K sign, that's for sure! I know it's not got anything to do with the Bingo calling equipment like the ball pop-up machine and the called numbers board that lights up--they bought all that stuff back in late 2009--according to an earlier post, so what is this for?  ? Can jwa go back to Bingo chairperson's house and ask her some more pointed questions again? (and if she says anything regarding blame for getting bingo shut down, don't let her intimidate you!) |
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Post by Dick Tracy on Dec 2, 2013 23:05:49 GMT -5
This is my 2012 e-mail discussion questioning Bingo Donation of $1000 for a Handi-cap Door/Cameras, to SLohA with our manager and TS at the main office;
From: TS Winter Hayvn, Dec.20,2012
Hi,
Florida gaming statute 849.0931
allows for the Bingo to pay for expenses associated with the operation of the
game among the other two options you mentioned. All monies that have been
contributed were earmarked for a specific project requested/suggested by the
Bingo. The auto door opener was in direct response to someone having trouble
getting in for Bingo and cameras are used for bingo as well. So if you are
asking our opinion on whether these are Bingo related expenses our answer is
yes. The answer does not however have anything to do with "donating" to a
charitable organization which SLohA is not.
Hope that helps. Let me know
if our answer is not clear. I think MK further elaborates on some of the
background of the expenses which by the way were not a normal operating budget
expense but were considered due to potential safety issues.
We hope you have a very Merry
Christmas!
T. S. Sent from my
iPhone
On Dec 20, 2012, at 10:06
PM
From: Ja Resident; Dec. 20,2012
Hello T.S., I received this reply
from our Manager at SLR. Is MK's answer to my question about $$$$ given to
SLR towards a auto handi-cap door, also Sxxxxxxxx Ixx's position on the intent of
The Florida Statues on Bingo Donations and Operating
Expenses.....
Thanks for any
Info,
Ja resident
From: S-bag Manager
To: Ja
Cc: President@SLRmail.com ; Secretary@SLRmail.com ;T.S. ; P.B.
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: SLR's Bingo Contributions Dear,
The term
"donate" was an inadvertent mistake on my part in regards to Bingo. The Bingo
paid for a portion of the 2 security cameras in the clubhouse for Bingo use
during Bingo because money is changing hands and is subject to theft.
The
Bingo also paid for a portion of the power door because disabled patrons coming
in for Bingo were having difficulty with ingress and egress during Bingo.
The Bingo IS allowed to upgrade equipment or any building items,
accessories, or inventory which is used during Bingo.
It is always my
endeavor to recognize groups and clubs who assist in upgrading the
facilities.
Thank You,
M K (CAM)
for SLohA
On 12/19/2012
8:51 PM
Date: Dec. 19, 2012
From; Ja Resident
Subject: SLR's Bingo Contributions
To Whom it May Concern,
Does The Florida Bingo Statues allow
SLR's Bingo Club to donate $$$$ to SLR? I noticed a shout out in The Express
that The Bingo Club donated $1,000; $500 donated towards a Auto Clubhouse Door
and $500 for a Camera. I was looking through The Fl. Statues on HOA's Bingo
Games. And it stated all monies must go back to the players, or a sum may be
Donated to a Local Non-Profit Charity within Polk Co. I do not see why our
Bingo Club is Donating $$$ to SLR's Budgeted Items. I do not think that is the
intent of Fl. Bingo Statues, when it says monies may be given to a Local
Charity.....
All of the above took place last year. So the opinion of our manager and TS in the main office is Donation fr. Bingo to SLohA is OK. A non-violation according to them.
Next Chapter: What are the ADA Rules when SLR's Bingo is: open to the public.
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