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Post by Dick Tracy on May 31, 2016 22:58:48 GMT -5
Florida Condo & HOA Legal Blog
Board “Certification” Required By Florida Law
By Joseph Adams on April 15th, 2015
"Becker & Poliakoff Board Certification Classes Question":
I am on the board of my association and recently attended a board certification class where the requirement that board members be “certified” was discussed. The other members on my board question this requirement. Can you please explain? E.O. (via e-mail)
Answer: Over the past several years, all of Florida’s community association statutes have been amended to require that board members be “certified.” Newly elected or appointed board members must sign a form, that provides that the board member has read the association’s governing documents, and that such board member will work to uphold such documents to the best of his or her ability. Further, the board member must agree that he or she will faithfully discharge his or her fiduciary duty to the association’s members. In lieu of signing this written certification, a newly elected or appointed director may instead provide a certificate demonstrating that they have satisfactorily completed an approved educational course. A prospective board member can attend and complete such an educational course up to one year in advance of taking a seat on the board.
In the event that a board member fails to either complete an educational course or sign the required form within ninety days of their election or appointment to the board, such board member is suspended from service on the board until they complete the requirement.
Board Certification classes Stwd Published by: Becker & Poliakoff, P.A.
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2016 8:18:18 GMT -5
So, you did an Official Records Request for the board member's certifications. Did anyone sign off? How many directors are suspended? And how does one go about enforcing compliance with statutory formal "suspension"?
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Post by Dick Tracy on Jun 1, 2016 14:08:34 GMT -5
Yes I did a Records Request for the Certifications.
Below you will find the e-mail exchanges between, Management (Toneesha S.), Board President (Larrry Leester) and myself (Jm Ath). I have not yet replied to Larrrys e-mail. "It may not need a reply! The e-mails tell the story". Toneesha's statement that it took "2 hrs to gather" the Certifications (aprox.14) tells me a lot. The $50 charge is "absurd". This is a BOD's secretary's file and I do believe, Tommmi keeps her house in order.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Larrrys Response:
Jm, Thank-you for your inquiry re: $50 charge. Toneesha did forward your request for information as well as her response to you. I don’t know what statute Toneesha was using to justify the charge nor do I know how time consuming the records search was. I did check FS617 and it does appear that FS617.1603 allows for a charge to be assessed for the reproduction of requested documents. As is often the case with regulations, interpretations can vary. I do know that Management, Staff and Board Secretary, Tummy Blkbrn have tried hard, in the past, to respond to all record requests and I have to believe that those involved in this effort felt justified in their request for compensation. Even though I don’t think I can offer any relief in this case I am very pleased that you have contacted me directly for information. I monitor S-bag.boards.net and I am always surprised that the contributors do not consult one of us when they have questions, rather than attempt to guess what has been the motivation for decisions and actions that the BOD has taken. I know that some have a great distrust for authority figures at S-bag and I can’t answer for the past but I do know that the current BOD is making every effort to quell some of that anger through open and honest communication. I can’t promise that you will always be happy with our answers but we will make every effort to be open and honest with all the owners. Please feel free to contact me with your questions and concerns, leery ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Ath's E-Mail to Larrry Leester Hello leery listerine, May 30, 2016 I recently received this response for a Records Request from Toneesha, I see she did not copy you and the Board on her response to me, so I have forward our e-mails to you.
The board has gone on record as saying that they will not stand in the way of Records request and if this isn't standing in the way I don't know what is.
Below is a copy of her reply and I request that the Board please comply with reasonable records request as they promised to do.
Toneesha's request for a $50.00 check mailed to SLohA, for a dozen or so filed Certificates is not acceptable. If it took her 2 hours to find these filed Certificates, it is not my fault, they may have a dysfunctional filing system.
Her behavior is neither within the spirit or letter of either homeowner or corporate law. The records request was made under FS617 since SLohA is no longer a FS720 HOA until the revived covenants are recorded. SLohA must comply with FS617. and FS617 has no provision for paying to inspect Member records.
Thank You For Your Help,
Jm Ath 5099 S-bag Lake Rd. LakeWales, FL. 33898 Cell: 301-751-1214
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Reply from Toneesha ( May 27, 2016)
Hello Jm, We are in receipt of your records request. As per FL statute 720 it took two administrative hours to gather the information available from the files. Please send a check payable to S-bag Lake Owners Association, Inc. for $50 mail to 499 S-bag Lake Rd. Lake Wales, FL 33898, so we can email you the information. If you have any further questions, please let me know. Toneesha Shrodr Accountant/Managing Partner Lic. CAM, Lic. Real Estate Sales Associate
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Records Request
Date: May 13, 2016
To: SLohA Board of Directors Fr: James Ath
Subject: SLohA Board of Directors Certification
Board Members, I have a request related to the BOD's Certificates.
Please note: Fl. Dept of Business Professional Regulation
Directors elected or appointed after July 1, 2013, to the board of a homeowners’ association, are required to either certify in writing to the secretary of the association that he or she has read the association’s declaration of covenants, articles of incorporation, bylaws, and current written rules and policies; that he or she will work to uphold such documents and policies to the best of his or her ability; and that he or she will faithfully discharge his or her fiduciary responsibility to the association’s members; or the director may submit to the association an educational certificate. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am making a Request for these Certificates for all Board of Directors of SLohA, from: "July 1, 2013" to the present "May 13, 2016".
All records are requested in Digital format.
Please Direct all records to : jauth1@aol.com
Thanks For Your Help,
Jm Ath 5099 S-bag Lake Rd. Lake Wales, Fl. 33898 Cell 301-751-1214
Note: Hand delivered request letter to SLR's Office 5/13/16
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2016 20:32:28 GMT -5
This behavior is shameful and concerning. leery does not know what Toneesha is doing to charge such an exhorbitant amount nor is he aware of the statute requirements. FS617 addresses only reproducing, copying and converting records. It presumes that corporate members have a right to see/inspect corporate records. It was not written in the digital age when copying, reproducing and converting are unnecessary.
Making a recent digital record available is a keystroke and costs nothing. Even the old records from the 1980's are digital and searchable by keyword. If Toneesha takes two hours to track down an essential statutory document, there is something very amiss. Either the records do not exist or her recordkeeping is atrocious. Members are not responsible for management incompetence. This is the second time in 4 months that Toneesha has used her sloppy record keeping as a vehicle to deny access to records because of the claimed cost of mismanaged resources. This is a pattern and BOD does not know what management is doing..nor does it care that the people who they represent are not permitted reasonable access to their own records!
leery wrote: "...tried hard to respond to all record requests..." What a nice idea! Agreed, leery "interpretations vary" but I know of no one who did not hear the audio of Tummy's words--or her words if they were present at the Dec 2015 meeting when discussing a New Era of communication between BOD and Owners--that records requests would be voluntarily fulfilled and the board would not stand in the way. What exactly does "tried hard" mean?
Do you really think that owners believe what Tummy Blkbrn said about restoring communication and participation?
Do you really think that charging $50 for a few records attached to an email is justified?
leery; you and your board should be happy and proud to publish the fact that you voluntarily complied with FS720 and read all documents--statutory and internal governing documents--for the benefit of members. These certifications would help restore your credibility and should be published on the official website. I suspect these certifications do not exist.
There is extreme doubt in my mind that any member of the board has read the entirety of these documents because your acts reflect an ignorance of the laws. If you have read anything in its entirety, then I think that many BOD acts reflect an arrogance of the laws. I am not referring to reading isolated provisions that your attorney points out when you have an "issue". Reading ALL the documents in a sustained and studied manner when there is no "issue" is what that proactive and protective statute is about. This self-motivated educational approach is the only way, aside from guided coursework, to appreciate the global and integrated Ntwerk of the various laws impacting SLohA's business.
Amazing! leery: you "don't think you can offer any relief in this case"!? Really? YOU ARE THE HOA PRESIDENT! YOU tell the Management Company what to do! (Don't you?)
Do you think that BOD has present credibility to answer anything truthfully? You stated that it was your intent to re-open communication and participation among Owners and board--yet this very example proves otherwise! And you are surprised that you are not consulted?!
Because I believe that everyone should have an opportunity for redemption, I will send you an email, leery, asking some questions which forum contributors have which have been unanswered for years.
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Post by Admin on Jun 3, 2016 13:01:54 GMT -5
Followup Email to leery:
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Post by BagLady on Jun 6, 2016 11:28:00 GMT -5
I wanted to bring this mini conversation with leery listerine to some kind of conclusion. After the initial "redemption" question and his reply, which are posted here, we continued to exchange emails in an effort to converse in a civil manner and attempt to understand "the opposition". This effort was genuine and at times contentious--never ugly and disrespectful.
There was, as I expected, no insight offered into the facts underlying the board's continuing allegiance to the Privileged Triad (BOD, Stmbug Ixx & stab) to bring business activity into S-bag, against the wishes of the owners. So, this will remain a mystery until it becomes clear who is behind this sponsorship and who is benefiting from the presence of stab's equipment on our property. This is a well-guarded secret.
leery declines to participate on this forum because there is the perception that the forum's intent is to promote ugliness and division. leery also declined to comment on my invitation to sit down--face to face Dr. Phil style--to talk about the problems in the park that make people so angry with the Triad. It is clear to me that we perceive the "division" much differently; leery assumes that the Boosters are there to defuse anger and try to improve morale and therein lies a huge difference in perceptions. Many others perceive it as instigating and perpetuating polarization within the park and creating an Us/Them division. leery also assumes that only the Boosters and Clappers are focusing on good things and having fun while the forum contributors are floundering in a pool of discontent and wondering why others are having so much fun. This is a curious perception. As the primary contributor on this forum, I can attest that I am happy and having fun even when I write a dissenting post!
It is my opinion that the Triad should further consider my invitation to sit down and talk. SNAP is willing to pay half for a neutral facilitator. The invitation remains open.
leery has stated that he is open to questions and concerns from Owners and will answer email from owners:
Thank you leery, for your willingness to receive and reply to owner questions. This light years ahead of any intention expressed by any board member in the past 6 years.
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Post by Admin on Jun 6, 2016 19:13:51 GMT -5
This is leery's President Message which he referred me to in answer to my followup question about "enforcement issues":
This is false.
There is no code of conduct. There are only a few "rules" that affect border hedge heights and pets. The Covenants are not synonymous with Rules & Regs. The Covenants contain the authority to propose and adopt a rule. A rule which does not relate directly to a Covenanted restriction is fraudulent. The Rules "logically" might contain a "code of conduct" with regard to the very scant provisions of the Covenants. An HOA was never meant as a corporate bullystick to control individual behavior. That is virtually impossible.
leery wrote:
One would hope that leery et all would carefully weigh each situation! I think there is a term for societies that place the community welfare over that of individual rights...COLLECTIVISM--a political set of social beliefs closely related to the tenants of communism.
Here is what leery et al subscribe to:
This pretty much describes "One Park, One Voice" and is embodied in his Message.
Here is what I subscribe to:
This embodies my belief and the reason for filing a lawsuit against SLohA.
This illustrates the dilemma that S-bag finds itself in. It can try make all the rules it wants but it has only one way to enforce against Owners--through the courts. The Owners ALSO have a dilemma; when the BOD violates rules and Covenants (as it has done by sponsoring commercial activity), THEY have only one way to enforce--through the courts. In this respect, there is a damnable symmetry but the balance of power, of course, tips in favor of the ones controlling the piggy bank. Remember that even ONE LAWSUIT will cost owners $75, 000 before the insurance company will step in and try to bring reason and closure to the dispute. It is not the Board's money. They are feeding egos and attorneys.
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Post by observant on Jun 6, 2016 20:32:03 GMT -5
To what end will the majority go to lynch a neighbor? Laws of the United States of America---wherein Florida is governed is not a majority rule option. Circumventing individual property rights, demanding specific mores, concurring by forced submission went out in the Dark Ages. Get real. Get human. Leave your pack mentality behind.
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Post by jimherbst on Jun 6, 2016 22:30:12 GMT -5
A couple of years back during a community workshop on proposed changes to the Covenants, a man in support of those changes stated that our American system of government is based upon majority rule and, as such, those in the minority should either acquiesce or leave. Apparently this individual knew nothing about the Bill of Rights. Both Jhn Adams and James Madison argued in the Federalist Papers for the need to "protect the minority against the tyranny of the majority". Madison specifically asserted that one of the primary duties of government was to prevent the usurpation of individual property rights by the mob.
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Post by Dick Tracy on Jun 6, 2016 22:42:39 GMT -5
What is the percentage needed to change R&R and to amend or change Covenants? Is it 50%+1, 66 2/3%, 75% or a 100%.
Or are they "Dead" and can not come back? Does anyone have any official FL. information on this issue? I get a mixed message when I read Larrrys Lesteer's Post.
Does he not realize that not all Owners signed any Consent Form and some owners are Homesteaded, USA Citizens.
16rc
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Post by Admin on Jun 7, 2016 12:00:52 GMT -5
Dick Tracy posted: Rules & Regs must be adopted by each individual unit of which there are three. The Board is now very aware of that important legal detail because it cost them the loss of Revitalization #1. The original boards of the 80's knew and obeyed this but somewhere along the way, someone decided to revise the law according to their own reality, preference or convenience. Each of the units must ratify a proposed rule by 50% + 1. In most situations where multiple subdivisions share common property, the Developer sets up a Master Association which governs the elements of the property that affect all owners equally. This was not done by the Developer for S-bag and has created more complex and difficult governance issues, as we have seen. Rules MUST be based on the underlying authority of the Covenants. One must be able to logically connect the dots from the Covenant to the Rule. Rules are only a clarification or tweaking of an existing Covenant (restriction). I know of no covenant, past , present, original, revitalized whatever....that addresses architectural restrictions on homes and appurtenances. That might be because the Covenants were written for a campground and permanent structures were strictly prohibited. Though Polk County usurped SLohA restrictions on homes in 1994, SLohA has no authority to say squat about what owners do on their property. Going up the hierarchy: Rules & Regs are on the bottom of the pile with respect to power, authority, significance, etc. Bylaws: require 66% of the entire membership. (This has been the subject of my own skepticism; SLohA records do not support the current provision changed in the Bylaws ie from 2/3 entire membership to 2/3 of valid votes cast. In my opinion, this is meaningless as "valid votes cast" is not defined. Also, it does not make sense because if only 10 people vote and cast "undefined" valid votes, then Bylaws, which are the major body of lawful due process, can be changed on the whim of 7 people!) If SLohA attempts to create a new Bylaw using the "valid votes cast" as its affirmative basis, it could easily be cH allenged. Articles of Incorporation: These are the next highest, above Bylaws and Rules and below Covenants aka Declarations. Articles have not been fiddled with regarding voting thresholds and remain 2/3 of the entire membership. Covenants/Declarations (referred to by many names but these are the most commonly used): These are the ruling guidelines which describe the theme of the property and the general restrictions which apply to property use. It also refers to the establishment of a corporation to manage the common properties and states that assessments can be collected for payment of maintenance of those properties and facilities. Covenants provide the authority to amend governing documents, including Rules. Less superior documents cannot overreach the Declaration and can make no law which conflicts with this Master Document. The Covenants have no provision for self-amendment; they only contain a "release" provision. SLohA attempted to add a provision in 1986 and placed a proposition on the election ballot. This proposition failed to pass the "75%" release clause in all of the three units. But SLohA ignored that failure and recorded the Amendment as if it were legally adopted. So, there is the belief that SLohA has the authority to amend the Covenants with a 75& affirmative vote, but that is, in fact, false. Attachment DeletedThis is an example of the TinKirbell Effect, which has been described elsewhere on the forum. A NEW Covenant added requires 100% approval. I am very certain that leery listerine knows that there are many non-consenters in S-bag and he was also aware that S-bag would be sued if it attempted to force its restrictions without consent. leery is somewhat insulated by following the recommendations of Management's attorneys who are no doubt eager to please the SLohA board and earn fees from the deep pockets of Owners' assessment contributions. All you have to do is look what the Board and the attorneys did with 66SS to see the path that this bunch want to follow in the name of One Park One Voice.
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Post by Dick Tracy on Jun 10, 2016 20:05:05 GMT -5
An E-Mail Today Friday, June 10th from Larrry Leester.....
Jm,
I thought that I had made it very clear that I was not going to post on S-bag.boards.net . Nobody has sent me an e-mail requesting information and I will not be bated into becoming part of the ongoing debate that is waged there. If someone wants me to respond to a question it will have to be sent to me. I try to answer all the e-mails that owners send to me as promptly and as fully as I can. I have made that offer to you and S u e as well. That offer still stands.
leery e-mail: larnan@rogers.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Will someone please ask leery a question about all things SLohA... Maybe like who will be paying the taxes on the towers. Why all of the Fear Mongering over a Volunteer HOA, it has been working quite well, with Polk County in control.
He will not be bated on this Forum, to partake in any discussion on this open Forum. My question is Why? That is the American Way, Freedom of Speech.....
16RC
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Post by Admin on Jun 10, 2016 21:04:29 GMT -5
Dick Tracy posted:
And yet, leery, you let yourself be "bated" (as YOU characterize it). Your refusal to participate in dialog on the Forum was quite clear and did not require repeating.
It is also true that the American Way of Freedom of Speech also protects the Freedom to NOT Speak aka taking the "Fifth Amendment". leery's willingness to respond to individuals' questions is a first step but the second step is responding to questions fully and openly. leery did not pass the test with the "redemption" question. It was canned, safe and did not address rationale and motivation for actions taken and further contemplated by the Board and sponsors with regard to stab's towers being supported by Owners' dollars.
What's the value of writing questions if there is only lip service in reply? What is the value of Owners' having access to records if access is effectively denied by exhorbitant "research" fees demanded by Stmbug Ixx Inc and meekly agreed to by our elected representatives? What is the value of soliciting Consent to do something when that Consent is subsequently ignored?
As long as neither group engages in open conversation in some kind of venue, we will be left with <<gasp>> Ongoing Debate on the Forum and President Message Monologues. Inevitably, the perception of suspicion, anger and distrust with a privileged clique of neighbors who have abdicated the operation of S-bag to the Management company and its attorneys will escalate, as we have seen since the arrival of Stmbug Ixx in 2010.
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