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Post by BagLady on Nov 9, 2014 17:22:50 GMT -5
Bingo is STILL not being lawfully conducted.
I went to the game on Friday and there is STILL no conspicuous posting of the 3 people responsible for the game, the Caller is STILL not validating that all balls are present and in the hopper before beginning the game and the Caller is STILL not verifying a winner before closing the game.
There are likely other violations of the law but these are the most obvious. We have many, many people coming to S-bag to play who do not live here. They are serious players, some of whom play at several different locations weekly like the Catholic Church and Nalcrest. The State was just in here last year and SLohA was compelled to reimburse Bingo for funds unlawfully diverted. If there is a complaint filed by a disgruntled player, the State will likely be quite PO'd at SLR.
AK is the Chairman of the Bingo Committee. The Bingo Law is posted on the forum.
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GTO
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Post by GTO on Nov 9, 2014 21:41:06 GMT -5
What is wrong with our Leaders, they do not like to follow State Status or SLohA's Official Rules and Regulations? They are not above the Law, or are they?
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Anonymous Environmentalist
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Post by Anonymous Environmentalist on Nov 10, 2014 10:52:36 GMT -5
What is wrong with our Leaders, they do not like to follow State Status or SLohA's Official Rules and Regulations? They are not above the Law, or are they?
Yes, gto, it DOES appear to be that way, when they lie to all of us residents, did you think their lies stop there?
They apparently have lied to outside agencies as well, just so they can continue to skirt the laws regarding all the wrongs they've done in here w/ BOTH building and zoning violations, oh, and also violations against residents--such as board members harassing, stalking and now attempting to strike residents w/their vehicles.
They are NOT above the law, but because they get away with not telling the truth, it sure does appear that way...
And, in the end, their lies will catch up to them--ALL OF THEM!
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Post by BagLady on Nov 12, 2014 8:21:29 GMT -5
Is there no end to the snarky comments and whining about people who complain when people ignore and break laws?
I am told that the Bingo Committee is really ticked off because I complained to them--via this forum--that they are not running the Bingo operation according to Florida gambling law.
In the recent past, others have also attempted to keep Florida Attorney General out of it by complaining directly to the BOD Chairman-- Bingo Law in hand--requesting voluntary compliance--only to have the words spat out "Do YOU want to be responsible for shutting down Bingo?". This director subsequently publicly disparaged the person asking for compliance at the BOD's personal bully pulpit in a BOD meeting. The State of Florida Attorney General then opened an investigation and SLohA was ordered to return diverted Bingo funds to the Bingo account.
Wake Up Call Bingo Chairman. Your Committee is threatening the continued operation of Bingo by ignoring the law.
Bingo Committee--get a grip! Bingo is a highly regulated gambling operation. And, Bingo has been on the hot seat for years for at least two serious violations of the gambling law. How many times do you think you can get a slap on the hand before Florida shuts this game down completely?
Would you prefer a complaint go to the Attorney General--or do you want to stop whining, READ and comprehend the law, get and stay in compliance and ensure the continuation of S-bag bingo for all to enjoy? It's not rocket science.
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GTO
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Life is Tough ! It's even tougher when you're stupid ! Jhn Wayne J ohn Wayne
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Post by GTO on Nov 12, 2014 21:32:27 GMT -5
Our Leaders look at Bingo as another Club in SLR. Plus they have a problem following the Rules.
Their poop comes out in little sealed plastic bags, it does not stink.
In the book "Rules for Radicals" Saul Alinsky, "wrote that no matter what, the ends always justify the means. If lying and being dishonest about your intentions works and gets you what you want, so be it." That is the way our present Board in SLR does things. And, Let The Chips Fall Were They May!!!(statement recorded at a BOD's Workshop several months ago.)
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Post by jimherbst on Nov 13, 2014 5:16:23 GMT -5
Your quote of Alinsky needs context. He was addressing the powerless, who cannot use "traditional" methods to obtain justice because the powerful have rigged the deck. Over the years, my opinion of Alinsky and his methods have changed dramatically. Initially, I disliked him and his community organizer disciples - most of whom were V.I.S.T.A. volunteers - because I was part of the big city power structure (although, at a very low level). I came from a Progressive Democratic background (my family were, in fact, Milwaukee "Sewer Socialists") but I also admired the efficiency by which machine politics could cut through the bureaucratic red tape when it came to addressing individual crises. I spent my first two years after college as a community organizer out of the mayor's office. I would have to say that the job was more like that of an old-fashioned ward heeler, working hand-in-hand with the inner-city ministers to make sure that (e.g.) the Jones family, whose father was recently laid off from Briggs & Stratton, got a turkey for Thanksgiving and fuel oil for the winter. Gradually, however, I began to realize how corrupt the system was and I became more and more radicalized. I also became a bigger admirer of Alinsky. I got out of community organizing as soon as I could and went back to graduate school to become a city planner.
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Post by Alaska HEMI R/T Jm Admin. on Nov 13, 2014 10:17:35 GMT -5
Your quote of Alinsky needs context. He was addressing the powerless, who cannot use "traditional" methods to obtain justice because the powerful have rigged the deck. Over the years, my opinion of Alinsky and his methods have changed dramatically. Initially, I disliked him and his community organizer disciples - most of whom were V.I.S.T.A. volunteers - because I was part of the big city power structure (although, at a very low level). I came from a Progressive Democratic background (my family were, in fact, Milwaukee "Sewer Socialists") but I also admired the efficiency by which machine politics could cut through the bureaucratic red tape when it came to addressing individual crises. I spent my first two years after college as a community organizer out of the mayor's office. I would have to say that the job was more like that of an old-fashioned ward heeler, working hand-in-hand with the inner-city ministers to make sure that (e.g.) the Jones family, whose father was recently laid off from Briggs & Stratton, got a turkey for Thanksgiving and fuel oil for the winter. Gradually, however, I began to realize how corrupt the system was and I became more and more radicalized. I also became a bigger admirer of Alinsky. I got out of community organizing as soon as I could and went back to graduate school to become a city planner. Mr. Jm Herbst, would you consider running for a Board of Directors seat? Many of us are extremely impressed with your skill set and the fact that you are a very likeable fellow.
SLR needs leadership and honesty, you have the right stuff to fill those orders. I would be happy to give you my vote and support along with many other fellow Saddlebaggers.
Please consider it if you would.
Your neighbor and friend
Jm Grnt
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Post by jimherbst on Nov 14, 2014 3:48:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words, Jm, but I would look forward to running for the Board about as much as I look forward to a visit to my proctologist. Besides, one lone voice on the Board would not be able to stop the abuses of power we are witnessing. The only way to bring about the needed changes is what S u e T. and Jm A. are doing - taking them to court. Towards that end I will continue to contribute as much $$ as I can.
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Post by Alaska HEMI R/T Jm Admin. on Nov 14, 2014 7:25:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words, Jm, but I would look forward to running for the Board about as much as I look forward to a visit to my proctologist. Besides, one lone voice on the Board would not be able to stop the abuses of power we are witnessing. The only way to bring about the needed changes is what S u e T. and Jm A. are doing - taking them to court. Towards that end I will continue to contribute as much $$ as I can. Thank you for your reply, Jm. I respect the honesty of your answer and whole heartedly understand as I do not care for that Doctor visit either!
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Post by BagLady on Nov 14, 2014 9:27:05 GMT -5
First of all to Enjoy Your Surroundings: "I LIKEY that pic and the surroundings of S-bag Lake and you in the SS SkweeBiscuit"
To you both, you guys must have very rough Protologists! Didn't the anesthesiologist give you Mother's Milk? I found the procedure to be quite restful and look forward to my next checkup and All Clear Report!
Herbie: you are spot on about one dissenting voice being a lonely number and ineffective influence on this board which is why I think there is a growing number of folks seriously considering recall of this board.
I will forward your note on the Wisconsin ordinance to BOTH Frd O'N eel (Attny) and the retained attorney who is handling the KCN problem on behalf of many owners who have donated money to the pending legal action(s), Bar bra Billiot St age. These two attorneys know each other well and have often cooperated on cases.
Oh and don't forget that Gngr and Lra are ALSO taking SLohA to court. Even though they were aggressively and mercilessly attacked by a phalanx of BOD, and fee-hungry attorneys, they responded with a killer counterclaim attack which changed the entire legal conversation.
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Post by True Warrior on Nov 14, 2014 12:36:06 GMT -5
I wouldn't put those few in the same category as Spartans. Stooges would be more fitting.
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GTO
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Life is Tough ! It's even tougher when you're stupid ! Jhn Wayne J ohn Wayne
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Post by GTO on Nov 14, 2014 22:36:29 GMT -5
SLR's Bingo Game as of Nov.14,2014, is still using "The Redneck Version" or "The Above The Border Version" of Florida Statue Chapter 849 GAMBLING. Bingo (849.0931). The Bingo Game Statue is 7 letter size pages. I would like to see our Bingo Committee read it before next Friday, Nov.21,2014. If we are going to have Gambling in SLR, lets try to follow the Law. We do not want the State of Fl. shutting down Bingo in SLR, because of people not willing to follow Fl. State Laws. SLR's Bingo track record is not good, 3 strikes and Bingo is out.
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Post by BagLady on Nov 15, 2014 8:13:43 GMT -5
gto wrote: Shucks! I sure didn't see THAT coming!
Seriously, why would anyone expect the Bingo Board Committee Chair to observe FL laws on gambling when the Board itself, as a governing body, ignores our own SLohA laws as well as corporate and homeowner laws?
Or, perhaps I am being unfair. With the recommendation of Mamager, the Board will pick and choose which laws it wants to parade out in edited form-reinterpret them-and use them against an uninformed and intimidated constituency to accomplish its self-aggrandizing agenda.
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GTO
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Life is Tough ! It's even tougher when you're stupid ! Jhn Wayne J ohn Wayne
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Post by GTO on Dec 7, 2014 11:40:36 GMT -5
Please Help ! What am I missing, I was under the impression that monies collected at Bingo, after deducting expenses, said money was supposed to go back to the Bingo players. If that is correct, then how come in the last fiscal year, Bingo donated a total of $6,000 to local groups. It appears the Bingo Committee is not counting the money collected at the door, before the Bingo game begins and Jackpots are to low? Thanks for any answers.
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Post by BagLady on Dec 8, 2014 6:06:51 GMT -5
The general money distribution is First: supplies "designed for and essential to the operation" of Bingo.. Second: money returned to players as prizes and Third: excess monies may be donated to charity.
Here is the statute section:
So how do you get so much money accumulated? Obviously, crowds buying cards fattens the pot-say 300 persons at about $20 pp for cards--that's $6000. However, you cannot return ALL that money to the players because there are statutory limits on the amount of each game and on the # and size of jackpots.
Say you can only run about 40 games in a session-3 of them are jackpots @$250 each and 37 are $50 games. That's $2600 which means you have $3400 left over donate to charities.
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GTO
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Life is Tough ! It's even tougher when you're stupid ! Jhn Wayne J ohn Wayne
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Post by GTO on Dec 8, 2014 8:23:13 GMT -5
OK, But our Jackpots are not max out in the Fall,when they have monies in the bank, and then they increase after the first of the year. I must be missing something. I thought all monies are to given back to the players and if any money is left over, the next week the Bingo cards are free. Which has never happen in SLR, to my knowledge.
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Post by BagLady on Dec 8, 2014 9:27:34 GMT -5
I looked this up. It does not appear that "free cards" was ever the case with HOA's. But condominiums had a statute FS718.114 back in the early '90's that forbid any proceeds of bingo to go to anything except players--it was forbidden to use monies for supplies and there was no provision allowing donations. The zero-sum statute required the bingo play to continue FREE to all players until the excess proceeds of card sales was exhausted. That could be never if there were enough people playing! A very strange restriction peculiar to Condo Associations conducting bingo games.
It appears that this statute was changed sometime in the '90s but the online statutes only go back to 1998 so I couldn't identify when it changed. The current statute places condos on an equal par with HOA and MHP and other non-profits.
If you find anything more about this, please post.
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GTO
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Post by GTO on Dec 9, 2014 0:09:41 GMT -5
Here is The Bingo Law at Posted on this Forum:
All of the answers about the operation of Bingo are here:
Chapter 849 GAMBLING 849.0931 Bingo authorized; conditions for conduct; permitted uses of proceeds; limitations.— (1) As used in this section: (a) “Bingo game” means and refers to the activity, commonly known as “bingo,” in which participants pay a sum of money for the use of one or more bingo cards. When the game commences, numbers are drawn by chance, one by one, and announced. The players cover or mark those numbers on the bingo cards which they have purchased until a player receives a given order of numbers in sequence that has been preannounced for that particular game. This player calls out “bingo” and is declared the winner of a predetermined prize. More than one game may be played upon a bingo card, and numbers called for one game may be used for a succeeding game or games. (b) “Bingo card” means and refers to the flat piece of paper or thin pasteboard employed by players engaged in the game of bingo. The bingo card sH all have not fewer than 24 playing numbers printed on it. These playing numbers sH all range from 1 through 75, inclusive. More than one set of bingo numbers may be printed on any single piece of paper. (c) “Charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organization” means an organization which has qualified for exemption from federal income tax as an exempt organization under the provisions of s. 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or s. 528 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended; which is engaged in charitable, civic, community, benevolent, religious, or scholastic works or other similar activities; and which has been in existence and active for a period of 3 years or more. (d) “Deal” means a separate set or package of not more than 4,000 instant bingo tickets in which the predetermined minimum prize payout is at least 65 percent of the total receipts from the sale of the entire deal. (e) “Flare” means the board or placard that accompanies each deal of instant bingo tickets and that has printed on or affixed to it the following information: 1. The game name. 2. The manufacturer’s name or distinctive logo. 3. The form number. 4. The ticket count. 5. The prize structure, including the number of symbols or number combinations for winning instant bingo tickets by denomination, with their respective winning symbols or number combinations. 6. The cost per play. 7. The game serial number. (f) “Instant bingo” means a form of bingo that is played at the same location as bingo, using tickets by which a player wins a prize by opening and removing a cover from the ticket to reveal a set of numbers, letters, objects, or patterns, some of which have been designated in advance as prize winners. (g) “Objects” means a set of 75 balls or other precision shapes that are imprinted with letters and numbers in such a way that numbers 1 through 15 are marked with the letter “B,” numbers 16 through 30 are marked with the letter “I,” numbers 31 through 45 are marked with the letter “N,” numbers 46 through 60 are marked with the letter “G,” and numbers 61 through 75 are marked with the letter “O.” (h) “Rack” means the container in which the objects are placed after being drawn and announced. (i) “Receptacle” means the container from which the objects are drawn or ejected. (j) “Session” means a designated set of games played in a day or part of a day. (2)(a) None of the provisions of this chapter sH all be construed to prohibit or prevent charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organizations engaged in charitable, civic, community, benevolent, religious, or scholastic works or other similar endeavors, which organizations have been in existence and active for a period of 3 years or more, from conducting bingo games or instant bingo, provided the entire proceeds derived from the conduct of such games, less actual business expenses for articles designed for and essential to the operation, conduct, and playing of bingo or instant bingo, are donated by such organizations to the endeavors mentioned above. In no case may the net proceeds from the conduct of such games be used for any other purpose whatsoever. The proceeds derived from the conduct of bingo games or instant bingo sH all not be considered solicitation of public donations. (b) It is the express intent of the Legislature that no charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organization serve as a sponsor of a bingo game or instant bingo conducted by another, but such organization may only be directly involved in the conduct of such a game as provided in this act. (3) If an organization is not engaged in efforts of the type set out above, its right to conduct bingo games hereunder is conditioned upon the return of all the proceeds from such games to the players in the form of prizes. If at the conclusion of play on any day during which a bingo game is allowed to be played under this section there remain proceeds which have not been paid out as prizes, the organization conducting the game sH all at the next scheduled day of play conduct bingo games without any charge to the players and sH all continue to do so until the proceeds carried over from the previous days played have been exhausted. This provision in no way extends the limitation on the number of prize or jackpot games allowed in one day as provided for in subsection (5). (4) The right of a condominium association, a cooperative association, a homeowners’ association as defined in s. 720.301, a mobile home owners’ association, a group of residents of a mobile home park as defined in chapter 723, or a group of residents of a mobile home park or recreational vehicle park as defined in chapter 513 to conduct bingo is conditioned upon the return of the net proceeds from such games to players in the form of prizes after having deducted the actual business expenses for such games for articles designed for and essential to the operation, conduct, and playing of bingo. Any net proceeds remaining after paying prizes may be donated by the association to a charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organization which is exempt from federal income tax under the provisions of s. 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code to be used in such recipient organization’s charitable, civic, community, benevolent, religious, or scholastic works or similar activities or, in the alternative, such remaining proceeds sH all be used as specified in subsection (3). (5) Except for instant bingo prizes, which are limited to the amounts displayed on the ticket or on the game flare, a jackpot sH all not exceed the value of $250 in actual money or its equivalent, and there sH all be no more than three jackpots in any one session of bingo. (6) Except for instant bingo, which is not limited by this subsection, the number of days per week during which organizations authorized under this section may conduct bingo sH all not exceed two. (7) Except for instant bingo prizes, which are limited to the amounts displayed on the ticket or on the game flare, there sH all be no more than three jackpots on any one day of play. All other game prizes sH all not exceed $50. (8) Each person involved in the conduct of any bingo game or instant bingo must be a resident of the community where the organization is located and a bona fide member of the organization sponsoring such game and may not be compensated in any way for operation of such game. When bingo games or instant bingo is conducted by a charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organization, the organization conducting the games must designate up to three members of that organization to be in charge of the games, one of whom sH all be present during the entire session at which the games are conducted. The organization conducting the games is responsible for posting a notice, which notice states the name of the organization and the designated member or members, in a conspicuous place on the premises at which the session is held or instant bingo is played. A caller in a bingo game may not be a participant in that bingo game. (9) Every charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organization involved in the conduct of a bingo game or instant bingo must be located in the county, or within a 15-mile radius of, where the bingo game or instant bingo is located. (10)(a) No one under 18 years of age sH all be allowed to play any bingo game or instant bingo or be involved in the conduct of a bingo game or instant bingo in any way. (b) Any organization conducting bingo open to the public may refuse entry to any person who is objectionable or undesirable to the sponsoring organization, but such refusal of entry sH all not be on the basis of race, creed, color, religion, sex, national origin, marital status, or physical handicap. (11) Bingo games or instant bingo may be held only on the following premises: (a) Property owned by the charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organization. (b) Property owned by the charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organization that will benefit by the proceeds. (c) Property leased for a period of not less than 1 year by a charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organization, providing the lease or rental agreement does not provide for the payment of a percentage of the proceeds generated at such premises to the lessor or any other party and providing the rental rate for such premises does not exceed the rental rates charged for similar premises in the same locale. (d) Property owned by a municipality or a county when the governing authority has, by appropriate ordinance or resolution, specifically authorized the use of such property for the conduct of such games. (e) With respect to bingo games conducted by a condominium association, a cooperative association, a homeowners’ association as defined in s. 720.301, a mobile home owners’ association, a group of residents of a mobile home park as defined in chapter 723, or a group of residents of a mobile home park or recreational vehicle park as defined in chapter 513, property owned by the association, property owned by the residents of the mobile home park or recreational vehicle park, or property which is a common area located within the condominium, mobile home park, or recreational vehicle park. (12) Each bingo game sH all be conducted in accordance with the following rules: (a) The objects, whether drawn or ejected, sH all be essentially equal as to size, shape, weight, and balance and as to all other characteristics that may control their selection from the receptacle. The caller sH all cancel any game if, during the course of a game, the mechanism used in the drawing or ejection of objects becomes jammed in such a manner as to interfere with the accurate determination of the next number to be announced or if the caller determines that more than one object is labeled with the same number or that there is a number to be drawn without a corresponding object. Any player in a game canceled pursuant to this paragraph sH all be permitted to play the next game free of charge. (b) Prior to commencement of any bingo session, the member in charge sH all cause a verification to be made of all objects to be placed in the receptacle and sH all inspect the objects in the presence of a disinterested person to ensure that all objects are present and that there are no duplications or omissions of numbers on the objects. Any player sH all be entitled to call for a verification of numbers before, during, and after a session. (c) The card or sheet on which the game is played sH all be part of a deck, group, or series, no two of which may be alike in any given game. (d) All numbers sH all be visibly displayed after being drawn and before being placed in the rack. (e) A bona fide bingo sH all consist of a predesignated arrangement of numbers on a card or sheet that correspond with the numbers on the objects drawn from the receptacle and announced. Errors in numbers announced or misplaced in the rack may not be recognized as a bingo. (f) When a caller has started to vocally announce a number, the caller sH all complete the call. If any player has obtained a bingo on a previous number, such player will share the prize with the player who gained bingo on the last number called. (g) Numbers on the winning cards or sheets sH all be announced and verified in the presence of another player. Any player sH all be entitled at the time the winner is determined to call for a verification of numbers drawn. The verification sH all be in the presence of the member designated to be in charge of the occasion or, if such person is also the caller, in the presence of an officer of the licensee. (h) Upon determining a winner, the caller sH all ask, “Are there any other winners?” If no one replies, the caller sH all declare the game closed. No other player is entitled to share the prize unless she or he has declared a bingo prior to this announcement. (i) Seats may not be held or reserved by an organization or person involved in the conduct of any bingo game for players not present, nor may any cards be set aside, held, or reserved from one session to another for any player. (13)(a) Instant bingo tickets must be sold at the price printed on the ticket or on the game flare by the manufacturer, not to exceed $1. Discounts may not be given for the purchase of multiple tickets, nor may tickets be given away free of charge. (b) Each deal of instant bingo tickets must be accompanied by a flare, and the flare must be posted before the sale of any tickets in that deal. (c) Each instant bingo ticket in a deal must bear the same serial number, and there may not be more than one serial number in each deal. Serial numbers printed on a deal of instant bingo tickets may not be repeated by the manufacturer on the same form for a period of 3 years. (d) The serial number for each deal must be clearly and legibly placed on the outside of each deal’s package, box, or other container. (e) Instant bingo tickets manufactured, sold, or distributed in this state must comply with the applicable standards on pull-tabs of the North American Gaming Regulators Association, as amended. (f) Except as provided under paragraph (e), an instant bingo ticket manufactured, sold, or distributed in this state must: 1. Be manufactured so that it is not possible to identify whether it is a winning or losing instant bingo ticket until it has been opened by the player as intended. 2. Be manufactured using at least a two-ply paper stock construction so that the instant bingo ticket is opaque. 3. Have the form number, the deal’s serial number, and the name or logo of the manufacturer conspicuously printed on the face or cover of the instant bingo ticket. 4. Have a form of winner protection that allows the organization to verify, after the instant bingo ticket has been played, that the winning instant bingo ticket presented for payment is an authentic winning instant bingo ticket for the deal in play. The manufacturer sH all provide a written description of the winner protection with each deal of instant bingo tickets. (g) Each manufacturer and distributor that sells or distributes instant bingo tickets in this state to charitable, nonprofit, or veterans’ organizations sH all prepare an invoice that contains the following information: 1. Date of sale. 2. Form number and serial number of each deal sold. 3. Number of instant bingo tickets in each deal sold. 4. Name of distributor or organization to whom each deal is sold. 5. Price of each deal sold.
All information contained on an invoice must be maintained by the distributor or manufacturer for 3 years. (h) The invoice, or a true and accurate copy thereof, must be on the premises where any deal of instant bingo tickets is stored or in play. (14) Any organization or other person who willfully and knowingly violates any provision of this section commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. For a second or subsequent offense, the organization or other person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
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