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Post by Admin on Nov 1, 2014 19:52:35 GMT -5
Here is what Frd O'N eel (Attny), Esq., provided to explain the general progression of a civil lawsuit:
SLohA was served these documents on Oct 24 and has 30 days to answer. Interrogatories are a form of "discovery" which can take many forms. Discovery, in the law of the United States, is the pre-trial phase in a lawsuit in which each party, through the law of civil procedure, can obtain evidence from the opposing party by means of discovery devices including requests for answers to interrogatories, requests for production of documents, requests for admissions and depositions.
In practice, most civil cases in the United States are settled after discovery. After discovery, both sides often are in agreement about the relative strength and weaknesses of each side's case and this often results in either a settlement or summary judgment, which eliminates the expense and risks of a trial.
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Post by Admin on Nov 2, 2014 4:38:40 GMT -5
I read the entire Interrogatory and here is my comment using two examples that I think everyone is familiar with. There are a total of 19 Interrogatories. Austin interrogatories.pdf (149.01 KB) To back up a second, in the Admissions Phase, SLohA was asked to admit that the original Declaration previously encumbering the parcel has no provision for amending by less than 100% of Members, per Florida statutes. They flat out denied that. Interrogatories (formal questions) go one step further. The question is formally posed another way i.e. “If you disagree that the Covenants on subject parcel are not expired, then state the factual basis for your denial." The lawsuit is currently “in discovery” at the Interrogatory St age. The Persecutor (SLohA) must now come to the table with evidence and proof supporting the complaints they have denied or “don’t know nuttin’ about”. So far, most of SLohA’s denials have been “formula” rejections of the complaints i.e. statute of limitations, laches, failure to mitigate damages (if any) etc. Now, SLohA must put their money where their mouth is and support these denials with expert testimony, statutory and case law. SLohA has 30 days from the filing date of Oct 24 to provide answers to the Interrogatory. Here is example of an Interrogatory--a question: SLohA is in a real pickle with this one; probably all the attorneys in Florida would not be able to make this provision magically appear. By the way, this is the very same question asked in the May 2013 meeting with the two attorneys for SLohA who presented an overview of the covenants expiration issue. It was asked by TWO different owners. At the time, attorney answer was 1) a brush off and 2)an avoidance statement “that it was not relevant”. The Owner then said it WAS relevant because Owners were being asked to finance an expensive lawsuit and deserved to know the potential defense merits of the case per SLohA’s attorneys. The attorneys did not answer the question –and here we are today—again, asking this fundamental question again...very expensively! Here's another goodie for SLohA to navigate: This admission is key because the MRTA statute specifically requires reference to a recorded document affecting restrictions or encumbrances on land to be SPECIFIC and “locatable” on the public record. This is a basic element of giving people “formal notice”—a foundation of due process. SLohA asserts that the Owners had “actual and constructive notice.” MRTA law defines “notice” as specific references, which did not appear within the Owners' 30-year chain of title. The Interrogatory requires SLohA to now prove their assertion that the Owners had sufficient notice of its restrictions. Here’s a quote about reality: How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. ~Abraham LincolnIn my opinion, settlement is reasonable and desirable for SLohA to pursue. Unless SLohA pulls a very large rabbit out of a hat, it has no case based on law. While suspected now, this will be fully demonstrated when they formally answer the Interrogatories (around Thanksgiving). A Jury Trial would be disastrous for SLohA; the Defendants are sympathetic figures, the case involves “home and hearth”, there is evidence of "abuse and intimidation" of the Defendants (damages!), the case involves an unpopular entity—a homeowner association. The "problem" is inscrutable--a porch on the front of a house! Add to that the written approval by SLohA of the plans and you are in deep doo-doo with the jury! In short, the case highlights the Association exemplifying the worst that HOA’s have to offer! Juries have been known to “stick it to” such abusive Plaintiffs in monetary damage awards. If this goes to Jury, it might get MEGA-expensive for SLohA. But, unfortunately, the lawyer gets paid regardless of the outcome and SLohA has the bottomless pit of money to pay the lawyer fees to accomplish its sadistic and misguided mission. The legal discovery process is methodical, following a “due process” all its own to protect the combatants while the REAL REALITY is being uncovered. I noted that Tower Hill’s lawyers have now joined the lawsuit along with Brown, GaGaKnees et al. SLohA needs all the help it can get and the costs could really climb in the future. Tower Hill attorneys are the attorney-of-record for SLohA in the Tg lawsuit.
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Post by Dick Tracy on Nov 2, 2014 13:54:18 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing the legal information. I do not believe there is any Case Law that supports SLohA's opinion. That question was asked at the Board Meeting back in the Spring, with No Response.
Jm 16 RC
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Post by Gngr Astn on Nov 3, 2014 9:44:27 GMT -5
I am writing under my own name because I want the board and management to know who wrote this: Board and Management, you have sorely misjudged your constituents. Your aim in suing us is evident, you want us to leave, become bankrupt and be humiliated. All may happen to you instead. We will never cave in to you because we are a different generation of people than you expected. I am actually the last of the "Silent Generation", the group of folks who did not rebel against the establishment but believed in and followed every rule. I am also on the cusp of the "Boomers" with Lra. This is what you failed to realize. We are the people of the 1960's who battled authority, sat in to make a point, fought racial prejudice and were believers in equality. We do not cave in to bullies or control freaks even if we have to stand alone. Luckily we don't have to.
No, we are different than you thought. The time for "old white men" who are cronies has left. Boomers are here and we are just the tip of the iceberg. We do our homework. We research to find exactly what the law says. We cannot be intimidated. We hold no humans above or below ourselves. We all have different talents and skills - different, not higher or lower. So, if you survive this battle, you must change your approach and learn that times have changed and you must too or as you put it "leave".
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Post by Happy Hippie on Nov 4, 2014 10:19:05 GMT -5
You obviously put some thought into the big picture problems in here. What you wrote is one hunka truth for many of the younger seniors who are only a generation apart but a universe different in worldview from the old patriarchal model of the way things used to be.
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Post by Lra on Dec 6, 2014 13:54:47 GMT -5
For the record, I am posting part of the response Stmbug Ixx's attorneys engaged by SLohA, submitted to the courts.
Please admit Defendants submitted a request for Plaintiffs approval on January 7, 2014. Response: Denied Actual: Defendants have copy of same in their possession.
Please admit that Defendants obtained Plaintiffs written approval of the subject structure on January 27, 2014. Response: Denied Actual: Defendants have copy of same in their possession.
Please admit that Defendants' structure was delivered on February 18, 2014, and was inspected and approved by Plaintiff's agent at that time. Response: Denied Actual: Multiple witnesses observed the manager review the unit and signaled to an office worker to allow unit on the premises.
Please admit that February 18, 2014 was prior to the effective date of the rules sought to be enforced by Plaintiffs. Response: Denied Actual: The Board and management met with their attorney after February 18, 2014, and sought to make their decision retroactive to February 18, 2014. AFTER THE FACT.
Please admit that the Defendants are owners of said property. Response: ( Check out this major legal error on the part of the SLohA attorneys). Warranty Deed on March 19, 2009 shows Defendants took ownership of subject property, Lot 30, Block 54, Unit 3 S-bag Lake as joint tenants with rights of survivor to the subject property. Actual: Property was purchased on March 27, 2012-----25 days after the Covenants, Rules and Regulations expired on this property. The title reads that the Covenants, Rules and Regulations were NOT reimposed.
Wouldn't you feel really comfortable going into court knowing that your attorney's responses were both untrue and inaccurate? NOT. ???WHY WASTE MORE S-bag MONEY
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Post by Dick Tracy on Dec 6, 2014 18:18:18 GMT -5
This is how attorneys pay for their kids education. The BODs are in Denial. It is time for a change in SLohA, that includes the management company. We are being played as fools. Management has complete control at the present. This Bd has to go!
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Post by Lra on Dec 7, 2014 10:43:32 GMT -5
Again, I wish to go on record to inform others of what stress we are under.
In a recent telephone conversation between our attorney (Frd O'N eel (Attny)) and the Stmbug Ixx, i.e. SLohA attorney (Michael H. Kestenbaum), Mr. Kestenbaum engaged in name calling, yelling and insulting both us and our attorney verbally to the point where our attorney had to end the conversation by hanging up on Mr. Kestenbaum. Mr. Kestenbaum stated that they had an inside informant and that Gngr Astn was faking her illness. Anyone who uses 911, goes into ICU for 4 days and had a very long hospital stay with home health care and physical therapy afterwards is not capable of "faking it ".
But what heck, THE BOARD RULES.
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GTO
Addict
Life is Tough ! It's even tougher when you're stupid ! Jhn Wayne J ohn Wayne
Posts: 198
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Post by GTO on Dec 7, 2014 11:12:25 GMT -5
It is really a tough life, when one is stupid. Is SLohA putting out Bids to retain Attorneys? Low bidder in panic mood...
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Post by observer on Dec 7, 2014 14:28:15 GMT -5
This is a reality check on what happened to Gngr. She started having Lupus flares, brought on by stress of this whole lawsuit stuff and the flares weakened her to the point of getting an infection in her blood. The infection became profound and kept her on IV antibiotics for two plus weeks. This had never happened to her before.
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Post by pestcontrol on Dec 8, 2014 18:54:35 GMT -5
Reviewing the posts of the past few days regarding actions of SLohA Board members, I wonder out loud: Why do we as residents tolerate such poor behavior from our Board? I realize that they are our neighbors and friends, but they need to represent all of S-bag in the best possible way. I for one would not and could not bring myself to act out against a neighbor in such poor ways that are very unbecoming of any S-bag resident. Please, please refrain yourselves and think about what brought you here to S-bag in the beginning. We all deserve better representation.
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Post by Lra on Dec 23, 2014 8:26:05 GMT -5
For the record, I am posting part of the response Stmbg Ixx's attorneys engaged by SLohA, submitted to the courts.
Please admit Defendants submitted a request for Plaintiffs approval on January 7, 2014. Response: Denied Actual: Defendants have copy of same in their possession.
Please admit that Defendants obtained Plaintiffs written approval of the subject structure on January 27, 2014. Response: Denied Actual: Defendants have copy of same in their possession.
Please admit that Defendants' structure was delivered on February 18, 2014, and was inspected and approved by Plaintiff's agent at that time. Response: Denied Actual: Multiple witnesses observed the manager review the unit and signaled to an office worker to allow unit on the premises.
Please admit that February 18, 2014 was prior to the effective date of the rules sought to be enforced by Plaintiffs. Response: Denied Actual: The Board and management met with their attorney after February 18, 2014, and sought to make their decision retroactive to February 18, 2014. AFTER THE FACT.
Please admit that the Defendants are owners of said property. Response: ( Check out this major legal error on the part of the SLohA attorneys). Warranty Deed on March 19, 2009 shows Defendants took ownership of subject property, Lot 30, Block 54, Unit 3 S-bag Lake as joint tenants with rights of survivor to the subject property. Actual: Property was purchased on March 27, 2012-----25 days after the Covenants, Rules and Regulations expired on this property. The title reads that the Covenants, Rules and Regulations were NOT reimposed.
Wouldn't you feel really comfortable going into court knowing that your attorney's responses were both untrue and inaccurate? NOT. ???WHY WASTE MORE S-bag MONEY
As the Board engages their latest "legal strategy " in their lawsuit against us, let it be known that individuals (board members past and present and management) have now been exposed to additional legal action individually and collectively. Did you know that if you received a written approval from the manager acting as an agent of the Board and then were told that you needed to change or stop what you were doing that that is BREACH OF CONTRACT? You acted in good faith and relied on the knowledge of another. Add to that that if actions were done to stop your progress or demands made that you change what was originally approved it is considered DELIBERATE AND INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE and subject to you receiving compensation. Yes, Virginia. There is a Santa Clause.
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Post by Lra on Dec 23, 2014 9:24:54 GMT -5
That is where M. e. l. and Kn Lws made their FATAL MISTAKE. Our unit was not only approved, but allowed on to our property. No "after - the - fact" rejection is acceptable and any and all costs incurred (including injurious damages, i.e., medical, mental anguish, etc.) are subject t to be compensated.
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Post by Lra on Dec 31, 2014 7:52:44 GMT -5
With the forestalling tactics of our Board with no simple resolution to our home issue at hand, an additional lawsuit is in the works. A legal team from Orlando, Fl representing Morgan & Morgan has accepted us as clients and we will be able to move forward with both individual and another SLohA legal suits. This could have been prevented with closure on our suit. But, no. The attorney fees will be flying especially with individuals possibly not being covered by SLohA attorneys. And guess what? We are now on a contingency basis with these lawyers and have nothing to lose. Wouldn't it have been easier to place on the ballot the front porch and side carport issue? Remember, Kn Lws started this with a breach of contract action by not accepting the error M. e. l. did and move forward from there. Not to mention the police documentations of harassment and veiled threats that SLohA allowed to go on.
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Post by Groovin on Dec 31, 2014 17:19:32 GMT -5
I am writing under my own name because I want the board and management to know who wrote this: Board and Management, you have sorely misjudged your constituents. Your aim in suing us is evident, you want us to leave, become bankrupt and be humiliated. All may happen to you instead. We will never cave in to you because we are a different generation of people than you expected. I am actually the last of the "Silent Generation", the group of folks who did not rebel against the establishment but believed in and followed every rule. I am also on the cusp of the "Boomers" with Lra. This is what you failed to realize. We are the people of the 1960's who battled authority, sat in to make a point, fought racial prejudice and were believers in equality. We do not cave in to bullies or control freaks even if we have to stand alone. Luckily we don't have to.
No, we are different than you thought. The time for "old white men" who are cronies has left. Boomers are here and we are just the tip of the iceberg. We do our homework. We research to find exactly what the law says. We cannot be intimidated. We hold no humans above or below ourselves. We all have different talents and skills - different, not higher or lower. So, if you survive this battle, you must change your approach and learn that times have changed and you must too or as you put it "leave". Dear Gngr and others: From Groovin as Guest As an outsider I have been watching, intently and with great interest, the circus fiasco within SLohA play out. Your messages are well written, intelligent, well thought out, informative, heartfelt and for the most part quite entertaining. Your cause follows a common thread woven into the fabric of the human experience, especially that of the HOA, even with its two apparently unintentional flaws, i.e.: Absolute power corrupts absolutely and Divide et impera to gain or maintain that power, both of which are difficult to avoid for us humans. Its just the nature of the beast. I too am on the cusp, (the trailing edge) of Aquarius. I too reside in an HOA run by a bully ManBod and I too have become the target of evil malice, vandalism, libel, slander, hostility, intentional infliction, threats, assault, false arrest, had a gun pointed at me, was put in the hospital and spent a night in jail all because I defended the helpless, (mostly lone elderly women), cH allenged the MANBOD, asked to see the Association’s financial records and filled a (successful) complaint against the Property Manager. There are differences though. For instance, I am an "old white man" to be, my HOA, until recently, has been run by a Board made up entirely of women and their cronies, the leader of whom must be a direct descendant of Benito Mussolini, whose bloodline missed the boat to Argentina following the war. Also, although MRTA should have extinguished the deed restrictions of individual lot/units with root titles from 1982, most, if not all, have had record title transactions in the chain of title that preserved them under the 712.03 exceptions. Even those that would have been homesteaded were transferred to trusts. Consequently there is no money to be made for an attorney to want to become involved in our homeowner issues when they could pick up an easy, cut and dry MRTA case against a stupid entrenched BOD. Also, unlike SLohA where you have been able to establish a support Ntwerk around a single, strong woman Admin leader, that does not exist in my HOA, probably because of the leadership role reversal and the stereotype shared by the sisterhood for the "old white male". And here lies the impetus of my writing this. While I am and have been an active advocate for human rights, human equality and justice for all regardless of ethnicity, age, sexual orientation and spirituality my entire life, I’ve watched, witnessed and personally experienced being unjustly stereotyped an "old white male". I guess that’s the price I must pay now for experiencing its evolution when you guys were burning your bras, shaking your goods through the tulip fields and practicing, to my youthful delight and memories to boot, your newly proclaimed sexual freedoms. However, like all stereotypical racial, ethnic and sexual preference slurs, it carries negative connotations used to bond one group against another and it has alienated many good "old white men" from championing and contributing to the greater causes. It aides those in power to divide and conquer; it alienates potential allies and weakens alliances. In any event, I am cheering for you gals all the way. I hope you give em hell and get your rewards in the end. You have my empathy for your situation and hope that you all succeed. And remember that it was old white, black, red and yellow men and women who championed the causes and who lost life and limb for us all to be where we are today. We did not get here alone without their help and sacrifices. Good luck, as though you need it, for you surely don't it this case. Wish you all a Safe, Happy and Healthy New Year
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Post by BagLady on Jan 1, 2015 7:24:04 GMT -5
Groovin posted:
Your statement resonated; although we are seeing the waning of American patriarchy, we also see alternate role colorations for women who can and will become matriarchal and abusive of others given the opportunity. It is, as you say, the "nature of the beast" and the HUMAN condition. I am sorry that you have been so victimized by the so-called gentler half. I like to think of my sistahs as having evolved in a more peaceful and egalitarian direction but know that is wishful thinking. I have seen viciousness in women equal to that of "old white men". I appreciate your posting to remind us that we are connected by our hearts and minds and not to overgeneralize about humans depending on a random accident of genes.
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Post by Lra on Jan 7, 2015 11:10:50 GMT -5
Question: Has anyone else had their SLohA quarterly payment held up? My bank issued the check on December 29 , 2014 for the January 1, 2015 payment and as of this date, January 7, 2015, my check has not been processed. Is this a set-up? I can only speculate.
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Post by jimherbst on Jan 7, 2015 12:54:23 GMT -5
I don't know if this helps to answer your question but, in my case, I had made arrangements with SLohA to automatically withdraw the quarterly assessment from my checking account. Typically, the funds are not withdrawn from my account until the 10th of the month - sometimes even later.
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Post by Lra on Jan 8, 2015 17:19:23 GMT -5
Our second set of attorneys have advised us not to comment on any happenings; however, that is hard to do when the "SLohA spin doctors" are actively at work spreading propaganda about so called RULES and RULE Breakers. I must go on record to state: "We at 66 Silversides followed the rules. It is the manager working on behalf of the Board who led us astray and approved the unit twice at separate times as a representative of the Board and then broke that contractual arrangement after we committed over $100,000.00 of our own monies based on HER error and then that error has been allowed to become an active way to persecute and prosecute us.
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